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Talk:Where No Man Has Gone Before (episode)
Poor phrasing *I'm not sure "forcefield surrounding the galaxy" is a good phrase, but I won't edit without asking 2265 I trust it's correct, but just out of curiosity, how do we know that this is the only episode to take place in 2265? The next produced episode, The Corbomite Maneuver, takes place in 2266, and so on. As far as I know it comes from Sulu’s statement in The Deadly Years that he’s served with Kirk for 2 years, and that episode’s set in 2267 (locked into place by the 11th film – Kirk says he’s 34 in the former, and in the latter we see his birth as taking place in 2233.--Archer4real 17:31, December 23, 2011 (UTC) :I believe this comes from the Star Trek Chronology and Star Trek Encyclopedia, and is considered as canon information by Paramount. was filmed in July, 1965 (almost a year before production started on the first season) as a separate production. And since it featured very different costumes, sets, props, different castmembers in key positions (chief medical officer, etc.) than the rest of the series, and also the cast is a year younger, I guess it's considered to happen a year before those events, before the arrival of McCoy, Uhura, Rand, etc. and the redesigning of Enterprise interiors, issuing new uniforms, etc. --Ltarex 19:41, December 23, 2011 (UTC) ::If by canon, you mean "canon", then yes. :) -- sulfur 18:55, December 23, 2011 (UTC) Indeed. The Okudas may have assumed there was a gap between and et al, but thanks to canon we know there was. As mentioned, the former takes place in 2265 – information from reinforces this – and as for the latter, confirms that ( ) took place in 2293. This means, provably, that McCoy’s stated 27-year tour of duty aboard the Enterprise(s) started in 2266, whereas the date was originally conjectural. The argument “possible happenings between episodes” doesn’t canonically wash.--Archer4real 14:50, December 28, 2011 (UTC) Production code I reverted the last change of the production code/number. See Forum:TOS production numbers. -- Cid Highwind 12:03, 25 June 2006 (UTC) James R. Kirk I'm not totally sure where it is but I think that the My Brother's Keeper series has mention of this as well, something about the Academy days of Kirk and Mitchell and it being an joke between them. If anyone has recently read those books could they please confirm or deny that belief of mine. - Avron 11:11, 19 August 2006 (UTC) Your belief is totally correct and rarely written on comments on this issue. 'R.' stands for 'Rhinoceros', because Kirk was hard-nosed regarding work. It is well-known Kirk was a bookworm at the Academy - Stripey. Two Dimensional Thinking "Kirk says he's been worried about Mitchell "ever since that night on Deneb IV." Coincidentally (or not), TNG's pilot episode "Encounter at Farpoint" takes place on Deneb IV, home of the Bandi. Picard prefaces the visit by stating that beyond Deneb IV "... lies the great, unexplored mass of the galaxy." It's highly unlikely that Kirk and Mitchell visited the same planet. Beyond their Deneb IV is Deneb V, where Harry Mudd was sentenced to death ("I, Mudd"). " Two-dimentional thinking. Deneb V could be "above" or "below" Deneb IV. :Wouldn't Deneb IV be the fourth planet in the Deneb starsystem? So Deneb V would not be further out, it'd be in the next orbit out from Deneb IV. But yeah, it doesn't really make sense for this starsystem to be both at the edge of explored space and a rendezvous for so many events. But that has nothing to do with "two dimensional thinking". It's just a continuity error. --Isaac32767 22:03, 13 January 2009 (UTC) Galactic Barrier In the novel series "Q-Continuum", the Galactic Barrier was revealed to have been set up by the Q to protect the galaxy from a malevolent entity named "0". In another novel, the Squire of Gothos- or Trelane- was Q's protege and created a device to harness the energy in the Heart of the Galaxy. Trelane nearly destroyed Q, and Q's "fragment" was what tried to inhabit the two unfortunates in this episode. Galactic barrier effect on Spock Is this really necessary? :The crew members who are transformed (Mitchell and Dehner) and the ones who died were as a result of a parts of the brain being altered or burned out upon reaching the barrier. Mitchell and Dehner are altered due to having high E.S.P. ratings. However, Spock, being part Vulcan, should have also been affected given the Vulcans' propensity towards telepathic abilities. Since this was the pilot episode, that part of the Vulcan culture had not yet been created when this episode was written. The above has been recently added to the background section. This seems somewhat like a nit to me, which we have deemed unacceptable on an encyclopedia. In addition, how do we know the barrier should have affected Spock? In this sense, the note also borders on assumption and speculation. Nonetheless, we can discuss it here first before it's removed (if it is removed). --From Andoria with Love 18:43, 13 March 2007 (UTC) :It seems like we are confusing ESP with telepathy. -- Captain MKB 03:29, 24 April 2007 (UTC) :The way the term is used in this episode, ESP would be a broader term that would encompass a variety of narrower terms, including telepathy.-- 03:33, September 5, 2009 (UTC)Jim in NYC Mitchell and Smith Can someone explain to me why they were holdiong hands? Sean Fennel 10:46, 23 April 2007 (UTC) :Maybe they were close friends? --From Andoria with Love 22:45, 23 April 2007 (UTC) Background Information These two bits are conjecture and I'm of the mind they be removed. # It is possible that the "little blonde lab technician" Mitchell mentioned may be Dr. Carol Marcus or Dr. Janet Wallace. # It is also possible that the reference by Mitchell about an "upperclassman" from Starfleet Academy who made an unflattering comment about Kirk could be Finnegan. :I would agree with the removal of the latter one, but the first (at least the part about Dr. Marcus being the blonde) is such a popular, fan-accepted theory that it will likely just be re-added sometime later. However, it could be argued that these two bits of info belong on the pages for Marcus/Wallace/Finnegan, and not on the episode page. --From Andoria with Love 01:56, 6 June 2007 (UTC) : I realize it's a big fan thing, but since it is still speculation. If it remains here, perhaps the wording should be edited to reflect it being fan theory. I remember reading an interview with Harve Bennett about his Academy movie treatment and he was asked if there was a connection (since he wrtoe in a love interest for Kirk). He said he never thought Carol would be involved with Kirk at this time. So, either way, it's just fan guessing. Since the Wiki is only supposed to deal with official "facts", I thought some kind of change should be made. (huff puff). Ssosmcin 15:15, 6 June 2007 (UTC) The upperclassman can't be Finnegan. Finnegan was an upperclassman when Kirk started at the Academy, so there's no way he'd still have been a student once Kirk had graduated and been made an officer.-- 03:39, September 5, 2009 (UTC)Jim in NYC Background Cleanup I decided to clean up background information to make it more encyclopedic, and to categorize it. Most notes could be rephrased (eg. from "Look out for this!"), but I felt some should be removed here for now. Please leave any comments below this entire post (to avoid confusion). And by all means, feel free to re-add the information if you can overcome the concerns raised here by rephrasing. I removed the following for being nitpicks: * The communications officer behind Kirk at the end of this episode appears to have his head down on his console, sleeping. * When "quoting" Tarbolde's poem "Nightingale Woman," actor Gary Lockwood mispronounces Canopus Planet as "Canopius." I removed the following information about lights on the pilot model of the ship for being unnecessary commentary: * This can also be seen in the standard shot of the ship sailing into the distance. At first appearing to be a malfunction, the fact that two different lights in two different sections go out in the same shot indicates that it was probably an intentional effect. (What are the odds of two sets of lights going out at almost the same time while the camera was running!). As for this (immediately after), I'm unsure why its there: *It should also be noted that bluescreen model shots where filmed with one camera at a time back in 1965 when this episode was made. I removed the following because I agree with the reasoning above - it's a nitpick and speculation: * The crew members who are transformed (Mitchell and Dehner) and the ones who died were as a result of a parts of the brain being altered or burned out upon reaching the barrier. Mitchell and Dehner are altered due to having high ESP ratings. However, Spock, being part Vulcan, should have also been affected given the Vulcans' propensity towards telepathic abilities. Since this was the pilot episode, that part of the Vulcan culture had not yet been created when this episode was written. I removed the following because I think it goes WAY overboard in commentary and interpretation. If there is something of value here, it probably on the char's page, as a short note. * There seems to be a lot of "job overlapping" going on during this second pilot. For example, as per promotional materials, Lt. Alden is the communication officer. He sits at the same console Uhura later occupies and, like she, can pinch-hit as navigator when necessary, but, he has nothing at all to do with communications in this episode. When Kirk asks to address the ship, it is Mitchell who engages the intercom from the navigator's board, just as Jose Tyler did in "The Cage." On the other hand, Alden's board enables him to turn on the "sensor beam" and rig the deflectors at full intensity. He's also a capable engineering technician who helps Kelso fix the helm console and move replacement components from Delta Vega to the Enterprise. * Lt. Sulu is a "physicist" and speaks as the department head of "Astro-sciences," even though Lieutenant Commander Spock is the stated "Science Officer." In the "lost intro" of the second pilot, Sulu and Dr. Piper can be seen walking together during the alert, which implies that they work closely. * Lt. Kelso is the most-interesting job-overlapper. Although he mans the helm in the first couple of acts, he later appears to be doing the job of a chief Engineer. Lt. Cmdr. Scott speaks as the "Engineering Division" department head, but Kelso leads the repair party on Delta Vega. Scotty remains on the Enterprise and installs the replacement components with Alden, and he even calls Kelso "a talented thief" when it comes to scavenging for spare parts. Kelso is also charged with rigging up the detonation switch on Delta Vega. Scott was on the bridge, watching the controls "going crazy... levers moving by themselves, buttons being pushed, instrument readings changing." I removed the following because I think it's incredibly vague (which productions? Whose theories?). Well, an incite would probably cover that, but I think overall its a nitpick. * Later Star Trek productions make it clear that 23rd century warp drive technology would make it absolutely impossible for a ship like the Enterprise to journey to the very edge of the galaxy, which is thousands of light years from Earth and would take years to reach by any starship. Alternate theories have arisen over the years to explain this inconsistency, such as the barrier being located at the edge of the Orion Arm instead of the edge of the actual Milky Way Galaxy. – Cleanse 10:37, 12 December 2007 (UTC) Phaser Rifle Photo The phaser rifle photo caption reads: :This publicity photo was the first and last appearance of the phaser rifle. That can't be the case since the rifle was seen at the end of this episode. Either the photo was the first appearance of the rifle, or the last appearance. Since I don't know which, I won't make any changes. A better caption might be "This episode marked the first and last appearance of..." Suck My Wake 16:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC) *I agree, and have changed it to last since it seems the photo was taken after the pilot was filmed. Sir Rhosis 01:45, 1 January 2008 (UTC) Only one flight through te Barrier? Is there a real barrier? 1rst question In order to fly to Delta Vega the Enterprise should have passed the galactic barrier another time. Why isn't this shown? 2nd question Is there a real barrier between the galaxy and outer space? :1rst answer. They never made it through the barrier, they turned around before they passed, so they stayed in the galaxy the whole time. :2nd, I'm not sure. I doubt it, but I don't think NASA can scan that far quite yet. But it exists in Star Trek. --Nmajmani 23:00, 25 February 2008 (UTC) ::There is absolutely no indication of any barrier in reality, no. 21:03, 19 April 2009 (UTC) Incites I'm removing: * "''Gene Roddenberry wanted a character named "Rice" in each TV show he created (such as Lt. William Rice in "The Lieutenant"), so the captain's name was going to be "James Rice Kirk". * "''During the shooting of this episode, a nest of wasps, agitated by the lights, stung many members of the cast and crew. Shooting had to be delayed several days to allow swelling from a sting on Shatner's eyelid to go down. For being information rich,t hey are citation poor. Regarding the first one, I found a link to a discussion stating the same thing http://www.theomegasector.com/lofiversion/index.php?t5566.html but that could have just as easily been copied from here (didnt check the dates). --Alan 17:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC) :Well, even if they could be cited (I've heard both stories countless times over the years), I'll be honest with you -- I'm glad you removed them. They're trivia to the nth degree (especially the hornet story), and really add nothing to the episode page. Just my humble opinion, but I think half the trivia could be removed from every episode page, and we'd be none the poorer for it. Sir Rhosis 02:51, 30 April 2008 (UTC) I don't know about the second one, but the one about "rice" was in one of shatner's books too. Jackoverfull 23:55, 24 February 2009 (UTC) Console positions It's worth keeping in mind that the helm and navigation positions are reversed in this episode. Mitchell's at the station we all normally associate with the navigator, but Kirk either addresses him as "helmsman" or gives him orders he would normally give to a helm officer several times: --4:22: Kirk tells Mitchell to stop the ship and hold their current position --7:50: Kirk tells Mitchell "Ahead Warp Factor 1." --9:52: Kirk looks to his right--in Mitchell's direction--and yells, "Helmsman, take us out of here!" When Mitchell goes down a few seconds later, Kirk cries, "Helmsman!" -- 03:33, September 5, 2009 (UTC)Jim in NYC Removed * Spock's shirt seems to have a much higher collar than everybody else's, almost a turtleneck. * When Kirk tends to the fallen Mitchell on the floor of the bridge after they cross the barrier, Mitchell is lying on broken glass which doesn't seem to have come from anywhere. * The navigator's controls are very sparse and there is a large blank section that doesn't have any kind of controls at all. * When Dehner is coming to after they cross the barrier, Sulu is supporting her and conspicuously rubs her shoulder for a long time. Removed nitpicks per MA:NIT.--31dot 07:52, April 19, 2010 (UTC) Removed from Background *It is possible that the "little blonde lab technician" Mitchell mentioned may be Dr. Carol Marcus or Dr. Janet Wallace. This is speculation not supported by the script itself. *Mitchell pronounces the place of the poem's origin as "the Canopius planet." This may be a mispronunciation of the star Canopus. Nitpick *Possibly not an isolated coincidence, Allan Asherman's The Star Trek Compendium also named Christopher Pike in early drafts as, "Captain Christopher Richard Pike." Insufficient evidence as a reason for Kirk's different middle initial. Mrtrekkiedude 21:40, August 6, 2011 (UTC) There is a stupid amount of the word "however" in this article. Read this out loud and reconsider your choice of phrasing. Unless you are intentionally trying to overpunctuate, include excessive verbiage, and are trying to include pauses in a parody of William Shatner. -- 02:58, August 25, 2013 (UTC) Could the title phrase use a disambiguation page? There are several items with variations on this title. What do you think? I haven't seen one. --LauraCC (talk) 19:56, June 3, 2015 (UTC) Remove watch comment? Who says a crewman can't wear an old style wristwatch? Remove as it's a Memory Alpha:Nitpick and add to wristwatch. --LauraCC (talk) 15:17, December 24, 2015 (UTC) Incidentally, here's the image that shows it: --LauraCC (talk) 18:00, January 13, 2016 (UTC) Apparently someone has already removed it. I added the reference to wristwatch now. No longer an issue. :) --LauraCC (talk) 20:59, January 22, 2016 (UTC) Age of characters A portion of Gary Mitchell's medical records is briefly shown, indicating his age as 23, and Dr. Dehner is supposed to be only 21. These both seem considerably younger than the actors. And near the end of the episode, Mitchell has graying temples, for reasons not explained. During the episode, it is established that Mitchell and the captain have served together for years, and that they have been friends for 15 years. From this one might wonder - just how young do people usually graduate from the academy? Also, a Ph.D. by the age of 21? And if she is a psychiatrist, she should have an M.D. :It's not based on chronological age as much as mental/physical age. was a teenager in . Mitchell and Dehner's intelligence are a factor in their change. As for the gray, it might be a makeup error - some people prematurely gray. --LauraCC (talk) 17:19, January 13, 2016 (UTC)